The Complaint Ratio

General
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The manager at my gym recently decided to walk back the swimwear policy in the adults-only, coed area located between the locker rooms, which includes a sauna, steam room, and hot tub. I’ve been a member for going on two decades. Shortly before the pandemic lockdowns, I was asked to wear more modest swimwear; I’ve always tried to be respectful, so I politely complied. When I eventually returned, I asked if the policy had been reconsidered and got the okay to wear thongs in that area again. I’ve done so for almost two years, but it seems recent feedback has caused management to change their mind once more, and I’ve been asked to change my attire.

My first instinct is always to push back. Thong swimwear isn’t offensive, and neither is my body. I don’t even buy that the person complaining is truly offended; they’re a bit like the class tattle-tale. There’s no personal benefit to them other than the satisfaction of controlling someone else’s behavior. But I know pushing back is futile. Even the most well-reasoned argument rarely changes a manager’s mind once a decision has been made.

“This job would be great if it wasn’t for the f***ing customers.”
— Randal Graves (Clerks, 1994)

The “complaint ratio”—the number of people complaining versus the number of people being complained about—governs a lot of decision-making at private establishments. Regardless of a manager’s personal stance, they will usually side with the complainer unless that person is significantly outnumbered. A complaint about a loud table in a noisy dive bar will almost certainly be ignored; however, a similar complaint in a quiet, upscale restaurant will likely result in staff asking the noisy patrons to lower their volume.

Compounding the problem is the fact that most people dislike being uncomfortable (which is why it takes a certain type of person to complain in the first place). Quickly resolving that discomfort—and avoiding it in the future—is the primary driver of most people’s decision-making. The problem for those of us who prefer minimal swimwear is that we’re virtually always on the wrong side of that ratio.

Situations like this leave me feeling helpless. By merely bringing me into the discussion, the manager has signaled that they view the complaint as legitimate and are willing to deal with a second angry person—one who could ultimately decide to terminate a long-term membership. Whether I change my behavior or storm off in a huff, their immediate problem is resolved. I chose to comply.

I wish I could end this on a more positive note, but the reality of these situations is often frustrating. However, there are a few things I tell myself. Perhaps they’ll help you too.

  1. You don’t owe anyone a justification for your swimwear preferences.
  2. Don’t bother arguing with people who have already made up their mind. It won’t change the outcome.
  3. Don’t apologize when you haven’t done anything wrong.
  4. Through your actions, make it clear that you are the reasonable person helping them resolve an uncomfortable situation with the unreasonable person who complained.

Most importantly, keep wearing thongs. That’s the only way we ever shift the ratio.

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Thongs in the Wintertime
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Frustrating, but, like someone once said, “don’t focus on the one reason why you shouldn’t, focus on the 99 reasons you should”.

Karens will always exist, but each year there are fewer and fewer of them. But let’s do our part: let’s behave like normal people, friendly, minding our own business. This being done the general public already has accepted us, even if we don’t look like Greek gods.

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Sooo frustrating for you. Totally understand the position you took. The only thing that might have caused me to challenge the manager was if there were females in thongs using the same area either then or at other times. If there were, and noting I’d probably back off in the end, I’d have challenged the manager to stop them too. If not prepared to do it, that would be (reverse) sex discrimination & I’d point out they could find themselves at the end of a sex discrimination claim (at least here) & perhaps they should consider whether they want that grief

Not quite the same & in short. Had a situation around a ship pool deck of being told in front of everyone & less than subtly, I couldn’t at lunchtime sit and eat at a table in a swim brief that was pretty modest but of course the exception to the ubiquitous daggy board short (less than a metre from where people were swimming, sun baking & drinking/eating in sun loungers). After a tense stand off about the ridiculous nature of the request in the circumstances of the pool deck, I complied after being assured by the staff member who ticked me off he would equally do the same if a woman sat down to eat at a table in a swimsuit

No prizes for guessing what happened next. Following day at lunch, a woman seats down to eat in a swimsuit. Same staff is watching & does nothing. Couldn’t help myself. Went up to him & pointed out the dishonesty the day before, the hypocrisy & (reverse) sex discrimination. I insisted they either enforce the supposed policy or I wouldn’t be complying in future. I did so with a request they do it discretely, not make a fuss & certainly not make it obvious I had complained - after all, I would not have complained but for their supposed equally applied swimwear ‘policy’. In the end the staff did make the woman dress but only after making it very plain I had complained. Needless to say the staff got a very poor rating & feedback on their ‘policy’. My punishment was I had to suffer the obvious displeasure of the staff member & of a number of passengers for whom women in a skimpy swimsuit at a lunch table was acceptable but not a male

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The New York Times published an article last week about American sauna culture. (Here’s the archive.today link to get around the paywall.) While it doesn’t mention thong swimwear, I think the attitude they describe significantly contributes to people’s discomforts about minimal swimwear (not to mention nudity) in saunas.

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I almost had a complaint while swimming laps last night. My gym is an adult only pool. Signs all over that persons under 18 are not permitted in the pool area. When I joined, I asked the manager if thong swimwear was allowed since it was an adult only pool. He said that as long as it was made for the water and had full frontal coverage, it wasn’t an issue. So I’ve been swimming laps in my thong ever since. Last night a woman showed up with her son, whom I’m assuming was 10-12. They shared a lane together. She didn’t complain to anyone but she kept giving me the evil eye. I left at 50 laps instead of my usual 64. I didn’t say anything because I don’t want to be a complainer but she def didn’t want me there. In hind sight I should have probably stayed.

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You’ve done everything you reasonable can do. Some people are always going to be uncomfortable. I try to remind myself that I cannot control how other people feel. If I were in your position, I’d keep wearing a thong and try to put her out of my mind.

I think that’s the right move. Complaining about the other member might result in action from management, but it ultimately won’t have any impact on whether or not they continue to allow thong swimwear in the pool.

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I find this challenging, because I want to live in a rational world where people accept that they might encounter things they don’t like.

There’s no good answer if you ask someone why a thong in an adults-only spa makes them uncomfortable. Of course, no one ever holds them accountable for their reactions, and they’re often the ones that get to set the tone for everyone else.

When I’m asked to change not because I broke the rules or acted inappropriately, but because of someone else’s subjective discomfort, it feels like reason no longer matters. But the world isn’t rational. I know managers prioritize risk management. Complaints have to be addressed, and it’s easier for them to remove the outlier.

You’re right. This is the only way forward. The outcomes aren’t always positive, but I hope that the experiences everyone shares here encourages people to wear thong swimsuits in spite of setbacks. Hearing what you all have to say has certainly helped me to be more confident.

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So funny continuation of the story. She was there the next Thursday. We started talking and as it turns out, she was having issues with the son (family drama you know, normal stuff I’m sure) and had him in the pool to keep an eye on him and was afraid that I was going to complain…after talking it out she has no issues with me at all. We’re friends now and are swim buds on Tuesday and Thursday lol.

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I think that you experienced something VERY common, that what we think is the issue it turns out to be something COMPLETELY different! But because we’re hyper sensitive and already on the alert and defensive we “ASS”UME that the issue is us!

So as you see, people don’t care, in fact they find it bold, and interesting, maybe even encouraging. So smile and say hello, and enjoy our (current) freedoms!

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I think you’re 100 percent right. Once in a while I get a double stare but most people don’t care at all. They pay no attention whatsoever. I think most of it was in my head

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Once again, I find myself in a similar dilemma and would appreciate hearing everyone’s thoughts. I think I could have handled things differently at the gym, so I’m reluctant to simply conform this time around.

For the past three months or so, I have been frequenting a nearby sauna and cold plunge. It’s an outdoor space with two freestanding saunas, one with a wood-burning stove and the other electric, and six cold plunge pools of varying temperatures. There’s a small covered area with folding chairs where people leave personal items while relaxing in the sauna, a few curtained changing cubicles, and a bathroom. Sessions are for one hour for up to nine people at a time.

My hope was that since it is a dedicated facility rather than a family-oriented general-purpose health club, wearing a thong would be a non-issue. Compared to the gym, there are significantly more women wearing bikinis and, although there aren’t tons of people wearing them, I have seen a few others wearing thongs.

Up until today, my attire, at least from my perspective, wasn’t a problem. One of the staff, a quirky, cheerful woman, even made a positive comment when I wore something other than my regular solid black swim thong. However, after my session this morning, I got a call from the staff member who’d been working that day.

He wanted to know if I would consider wearing something with more coverage. The facility doesn’t have a strict policy and would rather not police attire, but enough people have brought it up with him and another staff member who’s been there the longest that he felt it was worth a discussion. Apparently, a woman in the next session complained. Her son had been playing on his Nintendo Switch in the covered area while I was on my way out, and that complaint, combined with previous comments, is what prompted his call.

He said he does not personally care, but that it’s becoming uncomfortable for him to act as a shield for complaints and that he was hoping I’d be okay with wearing something that better aligns with other people’s expectations. It wasn’t an ultimatum, but some of his language was intended to soften the blow. He was clearly hoping I’d just concede, and he obviously felt awkward even having a conversation about my choice of swimwear.

He conceded that if I were only coming once or twice a month, he wouldn’t think it necessary to bring it up. He acknowledged that other people wear thongs and that even if someone were to complain, he likely wouldn’t follow up. The complaint can be defused, and it’s unlikely those same people will run into each other again. However, since I’ve become a regular and am therefore more visible, it’s a more significant issue.

The overall message was similar to the one from the manager of my gym. It would be easier for everyone if you just wore something else; read the room and do what’s best for the community. I get where he’s coming from. I don’t want to make things difficult for him or the other staff. But at the same time, I also don’t think I’m doing anything offensive, and I believe it’s up to people to control how they react to things that don’t conform to their own personal preferences.

I have a hard time articulating why I prefer to wear thongs and why it’s important to me. I don’t think I should have to defend my choice, but here I am. I don’t want to stop going and I loathe confrontation, but I also don’t want to be the person who gives in any time there’s social pressure. I sometimes wish I could be the boisterous, outgoing person who charms everyone. They’re much harder to contradict. But I’m quiet and introverted, and I often feel like I’m being penalized for being reasonable.

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I think you gotta go with that for now – coexist not confront.

That being said, if any women show up in thongs, I think you push back on this to the same people who brought this to you. What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

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Women have already shown up in thongs and I have no doubt they will continue to do so. Reading the room is more about the fact that I’m a man wearing a thong when all of the other men are in shorts.

While I could point out the double standard in the moment, that has never been effective in my experience. At the gym, the manager started reaching out to other members individually when I reminded them that I was not the only person wearing a thong. They effectively enforced a “no thongs” rule, but only when it was brought to their attention. Here, I think the response would be more along the lines of asking me to do them a favor and continue to wear something else to make their job easier.

They’re putting the burden of other people’s discomfort on me because they don’t want to enforce a stricter policy, but they also don’t want to deal with complaints.

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Ugh. Lazy, accidental hypocrites. I changed my mind about “coexist”.

I’d start complaining, every single time, about the women in thongs until they post an official policy. Force them to take a position. Make the management uncomfortable.

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In retrospect, when this occurred at the gym, I should have reframed the discussion around the policy and forced the manager to make a decision instead of asking me for a favor. I doubt it would have resulted in a different outcome, because so few people wear thongs at the gym and it’s easier to just say no to everyone, but I would have felt better regardless of what happened. Instead, I felt singled out and personally restricted.

I’d rather not go scorched earth :collision: on the sauna. I enjoy spending time there and, up to this point, the staff has always been welcoming.

I understand his perspective. People are complaining. Asking me to wear something else is the path of least resistance. All it costs him is an awkward conversation, which is what he’s dealing with already.

But it’s not my responsibility to carry their administrative burden. If you run a facility with a loose policy where people wear a wide range of swimwear styles, it’s up to you to resolve complaints from people who want more restrictive rules. The fact that I’m a regular is irrelevant (if anything, my opinion should carry more weight), and I’m not going to let them guilt trip me into wearing something else.

I sent a response via text saying that while I understand and empathize with them, I feel comfortable continuing to wear thong swimwear. If the owner, who it sounds like might be aware of the issue but hasn’t made any sort of formal decision, wants to update their policy, that’s their prerogative. But until then, I’m not planning to follow any unwritten rules designed solely for me. Perhaps they should ask themselves if they should be catering to people complaining about something that causes no harm whatsoever.

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Respectfully … you’re pushing an issue where you don’t hold any cards except the “yeah but women are doing it” where a business is being run. They don’t owe you the right to wear a thong and they do reserve the right to maintain customers. So far several have complained … I’m not saying it’s “fair” but I feel like you need to read the room. I feel like this is one of those AITA threads in Reddit …

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On the one hand, I agree that reading the room is important. On the other hand, I don’t think he is wrong to ask the same private business to enforce their rules consistently.

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Public beach or public pool I agree. Enforce the rules consistently. Private business you cater the larger clientele and what’s best for the business. Not saying I like it, just saying you have to keep the doors open.

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I agree with both points.

I wasn’t happy when the gym manager reversed their written permission allowing thong swimwear at the facility, but I complied without argument. Private businesses have the right to set whatever rules they think are best, as long as they don’t violate the law, which, to my knowledge, a “no thongs” policy does not. They did, in fact, enforce the revised rule consistently for all members.

Here, an employee with no real authority is simply asking for a favor. He made it clear that it wasn’t an ultimatum and that the final call was mine. While that phrasing was partly to soften the blow, it’s also because the owner implemented an unrestrictive policy, meaning the staff has no grounds to enforce a restriction. His tone was essentially, It’s not against our rules, but…

The employee outright told me that if I were a rare visitor, he would just defuse the complaints and move on. Because I’m a regular, though, my visibility makes those complaints a recurring chore for the staff. He’s essentially asking me to change my behavior to make his job easier, even though I’m operating entirely within the rules.

I loathe confrontation, but I also think I’m too quick to fold when confronted.

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The only outdoor public pool I visit allows thongs. Only one person, guy, had a problem and verbally acosted me. Not one other family with children had issues. Due to a change in work schedule, I have visited one time this season and during lap swimming. I doubt any of us can avoid “the moral code” people have. It seems women need to be first for a baseline.

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